Posts by: Eric Minton
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Originally posted by Jetstream
I was mostly referring to it being a map error, but hell, I probably need more Sidereal plots.
I don't know if "map error" is strictly accurate. I put together a now-lost rough sketch of the Threshold and passed it on to the developers, who then conveyed information to the cartographer. I can no longer recall whether I accidentally placed Kamthahar on that sketch in an unintended location, or if the devs decided that they specifically wanted it moved, or if the cartographer simply decided it looked better there.
Likewise, I'd also intended for the Haslanti cities to be closer together; ditto for Rubylak and Chanta. In those cases, too, I may well be as responsible for their spread-out placement as anyone.
Originally posted by Jetstream
Kamthahar... in... wrong... place...
Don't mind me, this is much more useful than my original thread's premise. I'mma just keep an eye on this 'cuz it's super helpful
... It would never have occurred to me to invoke Neighborhood Relocation Scheme in this context.
I feel confident that this will not be the canon explanation for Kamthahar's location. But if it works for you in your game, please let me know how your players react when they find out.
I'm pleased to hear that folks are finding these posts to be useful. It's unfortunate that so much of the corebook's Threshold writeups got cut, but on the plus side, this offers a lot of slack to whoever gets assigned to flesh out the material in some future supplement.
While writing up Kamthahar, I'd intended for it to be well to the north, somewhere around the Dreaming Sea's northwest terminus and the accompanying cluster of giant lakes (or, perhaps, small seas). I suspect that the preponderance of the empire's populace and wealth is to be found in that area, with Kamthahar itself an outlier and the steppes in between proving to be lightly populated. Kamthahar itself may not be the empire's original capital. But all that remains up in the air until a relevant supplement is outlined and written.
Originally posted by AnubisXy
So like, does Prasad actually stretch all the way to the Dreaming Sea? If it does, it would be larger than the entire Scavenger Lands and around 2/3rds as large as the Realm is. In fact, it would be staggeringly large compared to virtually all of the other named states in Exalted. Granted if it were that big it would make sense it could be in some kind of conflict with Ysyr, but from the write up and the map I definitely never got the feeling that Prasad was intended to be that massive.
The capital of Prasad is about as far from the Dreaming Sea as Gem is from the Inland Sea. If Prasad is supposed to be that massive, an empire second only in size to the Realm, then it seems like a shame that that didn't come through in it's writeup at all.
The original writeup for Champoor indicated that it was a Prasadi client state. While it's possible that the devs cut this for setting reasons, I am under the impression that it was merely cut for space.
Note that "2/3 as large as the Realm" presumes that the Realm's area is limited to the Blessed Isle, which is not the case. In any event, establishing two points on the map is insufficient to determine land area; Kamthahar could be at the center of a vast sprawl of Prasadi territory extending out in all directions, or it could at the western edge of Prasadi territory, with much of that territory existing in a narrow band along the banks of a river connecting it to the Dreaming Sea. The truth is doubtless somewhere in between.
Originally posted by AnubisXy
Prasad/Ysyr really reminds me of Paragon and Gem back in 1st edition and 2nd edition. In fact, the distance between Ysyr and Parasad's capital are about the same as the distance between Gem and Paragon. Back during 2nd edition it was generally agreed that Gem and Paragon were too far apart to realistically engage in a trade war with one another, let alone an actual military conflict. Admittedly the harsh desert environment was an important factor, but just the sheer distance alone between the nations played a big role in making people wonder how these two states would end up at odds with one another.
While it is absolutely possible to imagine Paragon (or Prasad) gathering up an army to march on Gem/Ysyr (or vice versa) such an event should probably be presented as a monumental and exceptional undertaking, even in the Exalted setting, comparable to Alexander's march across the world (there's a reason we're still talking about his accomplishment 1700 years later). It feel's a little odd to have it just tossed out there as a matter of course, similar to how the Gem/Paragon conflict felt odd for being tossed out there.
Prasad and Ysyr are imperial powers. Though they are of course far smaller and weaker than the Realm itself, they are, to my understanding, significantly richer, more populous, and more militarily powerful than any published Threshold state under Realm dominion. In matters of scale and realpolitik, they are more akin to the Realm than they are to city-states like Gem and Paragon.
This goes against how the Threshold has long been depicted, but that's a large part of the narrative role of the Dreaming Sea — to provide an arena for imperial play at sufficient remove from the Blessed Isle that it takes place outside the shadow of the Realm, while still fitting into Creation proper.
Originally posted by Piff
Real empires who were that distant from each other didn't really have those kind of relationships until the modern era. Silk Road trade and mysterious legends are totally fine, but direct military conflict and power struggles? Very difficult to suspend disbelief given difficulty in both communication, and transportation. The logistics alone...
As you note, real empires that distant from each other in the real world had lots of inhospitable terrain between them. Offhand, I can't think of two ancient empires connected by a sufficiently long stretch of populous, mostly linear coastline to draw a viable comparison. Meanwhile, Alexander the Great led his troops almost 4,000 miles from Macedonia to northern India — a far more difficult transit, performed without the peculiar benefits accessible to Creation's heroes and warlords. More applicably, Rome and Persia warred intermittently for close to seven centuries, with capitals close to 2,000 miles apart as the crow flies, or close to 3,000 miles apart in terms of actual travel distance.
(Speaking of Alexander, the Indo-Greek Kingdom is good cultural inspiration for Prasad's divergence from the Realm.)
Originally posted by Blaque
Mist actually, as a note, reminds me of something that'd fit in the Flat Earth rather well.
I am kind of going through that series again off and on and finding bits like how Simu seemed pretty much utterly unique in the setting as a half-dead demon-touched gender-shifting magical person like (s)he was. Or the half-souled pair from the first book. Or the Keba (I think that' sthe spelling) who learned magic, got stuck on a rock and nearly blew up the world out of hate. Or the flower-born lady.
Just all these weird, alien and bizarre things about, each which canve have a story to it and in such a wide world, all easily seen as myths or lies if you tried to tell someone about them unkowing of it.
I find the comparison flattering, as I'm a huge fan of the Flat Earth material. I binge-reread the whole series while working on the core book.
Originally posted by Chejop Kejak
Indeed. This is what I was (broadly yet reductively) trying to convey as "weird thing in Creation".
That's a really great thing for the game to emphasize off the bat, but I don't see it as granting poor Mist any special status, himself.
Oh, it doesn't! Except in whatever corner of Creation he happens to be in, of course. Exalted are rare, and supernatural entities who cannot measure up to the might of the Solars can nonetheless have quite an impact in their absence.
Originally posted by Blaque
My interpretation was Mist was supposed to be an example of the sort fo weird one-off shit that's out there in the world in 3e. He's probably the only thing of his sort in existence and there's probably dozens of similarly-unique once-mortal things out there in the world causing issues for people and protagonists.
Just so, although "dozens" is more of a lower bound. Creation is very large and very old, and once-mortal things are often unnaturally long-lived. It's not unreasonable for an area interesting enough to host an arc in one's home game to be home to several idiosyncratic entities.
Remember that (barring certain edge-case shenanigans) Terrestrial workings can affect a region no larger than a village, and Celestial workings can affect a region no larger than a town.
Originally posted by Ghosthead
I like the idea that Workings are generally present, but quiescent; they were tied to the proper performance of rituals, and geomantic energies and such, which are lacking or misaligned. That said, also OK with them being tied to points of reference which they cannot survive beyond. Some may have been deliberately limited in their temporal scope, to diminish their scale (as their architects would've have planned to renew them in future).
While such things might be deliberate, they may also be the result of the same sorts of fundamental limitations faced by real-world engineers. Mechanically, these would typically manifest in low-Finesse Workings or as a result of botches. As such, they are likely to be common.
Also note that while it's theoretically possible in your game that each Direction might still have a handful of high-end Solar workings on it — though as Morangias said, some workings might require maintenance whose absence has caused them to lapse, or be tied to subtle factors rendered invalid by the turning of the Age — it's ridiculous to think that every field has a working on it. There have never been that many sorcerers, and even thousands of city-sized workings would be effectively invisible on the Creation map due to differences in scale.
The rules are sufficiently (and, I think, deliberately) ambiguous in this matter that I don't think there's much to be said from an official perspective.
Personally, I feel that Exalted's "no backsies" principle is best supported here by permanently terminating workings anchored to things that die. Put a working on the land where a city is built, and it will linger even if the city is destroyed, but if the city grows the working will not spread with it; put the working on the city itself and it will grow with the city, but if the city is razed and its people put to the sword, the working is permanently ended, no matter if a new city is raised amid the ruins.
Also, I think it's hard to argue that there have been so many sorcerous workings that you literally can't pick out the active ones from the layers upon layers of old ones. AESS explicitly lets you analyze the functions of workings you see. Even if having a lot of them piled up makes them more difficult to study — which is not inherent to the concept — your character has Occult 5 and can figure these things out. And your Storyteller's ruling pretty much means that putting up worldwide Solar 3 workings would render AESS useless to everyone, which seems counterproductive.
(If you have access to Roger Zelazny's The Changing Land, it has some very good examples of how All-Encompassing Sorcerer's Sight might function on an in-fiction level.)
Originally posted by Elkovash
FYI. Since the first function of HgD doesn't interact with a DV ( it strikes away damage successes long after Defence has been a factor) that specific function doesn't interact with Reflexive charm rules. The question would remain if you could use that function without a Melee weapon at hand.
The other two functions directly involve Defence (allowing it to apply in specific circumstances) and thus interact with the stated reflexive rule and thus can only be used with Melee.
That was my understanding.
Ugh, you're right. While there's flavor text that suggests parrying, I see nothing in the first function of HGD that mandates the use of the Exalt's Parry. Unless I'm misreading, this means that by the book, you could use your Evasion, get hit, and then activate HGD.
For my own table, I plan to house rule this as enhancing your Parry Defense and thus being Melee-only. But unless someone more knowledgeable corrects me, I have to acknowledge this as a house rule.
Originally posted by Andrew D
So Heavenly Guardian Defense is also a brawl/martial arts charm?
You can't apply your Parry from a brawling weapon to Heavenly Guardian Defense, just like you can't create a Brawl-based attack with One Weapon, Two Blows. But you can parry a Brawl-based attack with Heavenly Guardian Defense, just like you can trigger your Melee attack from One Weapon, Two Blows off of a prior Brawl attack.
If that doesn't answer your question, please clarify and I'll do my best to answer based on the information available to me.