[#][F] The Demented One - 5/17/2018
Originally posted by KestrelCavendish View Post
Question, what actually happens when the Wyld is shaped by a Solar? Regular Wyld Shaping can create sentient beings. It also creates unspecified land. And my question is largely philosophical like...

Who are these people? They obviously have personalities, but do they act like they were born yesterday? They have either positive or negative ties towards you, but are they shaped with a culture? If so, does that culture have a cause? When you solidify the infinite possibilities of the Wyld to a fixed shape, is it the truth of what always was or a new beginning for what now exists?
I'll defer to the wisdom of Jenna Moran here.

Originally posted by Jenna Moran
I think what I'm going to say, then, is that they're people. That they're people because those things that form a person are inflicted upon them—-

in Creation, at least, in its vicinity—-

by the wash of the great waves of form and dream and concept against basic behavioral patterns. That they're people because the world is aware of them. That you can't have a person-like thing, in the presence of Wyld, Oblivion, and Creation, that is not a person by right of the witnessing of the world and the structure of action.

So then where did the knowledge come from?

I think I'd be inclined to go back to the tricks I used- and however flawed other bits may have been, I'm fond of these tricks- to make the raksha's world playable at all. We know that whatever else may be said of the Wyld and its shaping, that it will be as conceived by players and the GM.

There's an assumption that while a Solar may create a river, in the Wyld, or a river of twisting smoke, or a river of living twisting smoke beings wielding metal hornet's-nest whips, they can't come up with stuff that's beyond what we can conceive them coming up with. Except in a vague and generalized way.
So let's say that they live in a world that is rich in the same elements of experience and language that possess our brains when we go to imagine what they do in the Wyld as they shape it. Let's say that when we say, "But how can they make a sane weather system when they don't know enough meteorology," say, or "how can they make people without understanding them?" that we're not actually speaking of the realism of the Wyld, but rather expressing our own concept:
"When we, as people, imagine weather systems, or other people, we tend to find that there is something missing compared to the Real."

We dream, in short, of people who can make these things; but we also have this second-order process that tells us, "but it is easy to imagine people who try to make these things, and it ends up hollow."

We're used to a certain innate surprisingness of complex things, which may only be overcome by careful study, step-by-step mapping them that makes them the known.

Here we've walked into a bit of a paradox, of course. The Solar who makes people may expect them to surprise him; or, of course, in this case, this being a sociopath, he may expect them to not. The former case is a little more interesting: how can a person make from nothing a thing that does not behave as they expect? The latter case, I suppose, I've made almost as bad, by alleging that personhood is there. There's a third case, even worse, which is something I thought about a fair bit in Nobilis, which is to say, when the person creating people or complex systems from nothing expects them to both surprise and not surprise, to be exactly as imagined but also alive enough to be new and unexpected.

I'm not entirely satisfied with my answers here. I think it would be reasonable to remember that scholarship is, first and foremost, the study of learning, the study of studying, the study of research and burying oneself in books and caring about the facts and experiencing, over and over again, the delightful surprise of learning and the delightful confidence of mastery. So it's possible that the template for this surprise-and-not-surprise is written into the Lore Ability itself. That's a complete answer, but it's a bit facile.

I think that they may be hollow, the ones this Solar makes, because worked into their existence is a blasphemy. This is a Solar who loves not learning, who loves not being surprised by the things that give us an indication (in our Cartesian perspective) of their inner experience. This is a Solar who loves not to know people; and there is that kind of hollowness in them. And so it's possible that they are simply a people subject to an atrocity, and like many in the Wyld are soul-less not so much because they fail at being people but because some element of personhood and soul is withheld from them. So in that sense I'd say that Lore is the Ability that understands that potential complexity and can play it in deepness into new creations.

But I also think that their essence could be awakened to consciousness, and if they are in fact less than the people of Creation then it could probably be awakened to the level of Creation by a lesser effort than that which makes people already the people of Creation into something more.

Let's say that they could draw on the rich tapestry of dream and the Sword and the Cup and the Ring and the Staff and the Heart and the existence of things under Heaven and live as people live and think and feel as people think and feel, but because of circumstances it would require a stunt.

I am a little uneasy saying that the attention of something must turn on them before they become people, but I think it may be true, and it may be true not because they are made by a sociopath but because they are fictional. There is something in the world of Creation that is analogous to the attention of the players; it is not the same, and we imagine that it takes place sometimes in the world even when the players are not playing out a scene, but there is some force that kindles essence to stunt that is like the kindling of imaginary scenes into awesome as players turn their attention there. So on top of the rest, there may be a sense in which they may dwell in timeless dreaming as part of the fabric of the created realm before an event causes them to become aware of their own consciousness, and in so doing possess one.

Of course, all of this is a long philosophical rambling, which dances back and forth between the real world and Exalted and in so doing most likely sacrifices much of whatever truth it might have in either realm. And it may not get to the heart of the question and the concern. But I think maybe I can say something to the point, having spent this time in thinking aloud:

I think it is the power of Learning About the World, in Lore, that makes it possible for Solars to create something so complex that to fully understand it, they would have to learn about it.
While not all of this necessarily holds true in Third Edition, I don't think you're going to get a better thought-through explanation.