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[#][F] Holden - 9/6/2013
Capybara! wrote:
Edit: Actually, shit, should Creation have arcuated construction? I'm really torn about this.


Consider that 300 year old geniuses in the setting routinely ponder questions like "what sort of architectural arrangement will allow me to channel earth-aspected Essence through the dragon lines in such a way as to cause earthquakes in my enemy's prefecture?"

At the upper level, Creation's architectural knowledge is probably equal to or better than what we have in the real world, and limited primarily by available materials. Architecture is something that the most wealthy and powerful individuals in the setting have always had huge motivation to invest in heavily, and still do. One of the Realm's five central holy figures is a builder.

[#][F] Holden - 9/6/2013
Imrix wrote:
Holden wrote:
If you're defining "technology" as "stuff that can be done without active Essence manipulation"
I don't.


Cool, that's not the thread you're participating in, though.

[#][F] Holden - 9/6/2013
AnubisXy wrote:
MissMaddy wrote:
Thread non-sequitur... remember World War Z, the movie very unlike the book? In one scene the guy is trying to be quiet around zombies and he gets a phone call that wakes them all up.

While kinda silly, this practical concern was something that was actually pretty relevant when started parsing out the consequences of sending Infallible Messenger to spies and such. It's really not a great spell to use unless you have a dedicated 'telegraph operator' who doesn't mind having sprites pop up all the time to tell him things.

This also lead to the creation of another spell which was a kind of Sprite secretary, that would intercept the messenger sprites and make them wait quietly until the master was ready to see them.


If I remember correctly, I believe there was even a hearthstone in one of the books that functioned like that, allowing you to avoid getting the messages until you wanted to accept them.

As another aside, I did once use Infallible Messenger along those lines.

Our characters were being followed by a Night Caste Exalt who had tangled with our characters several times in the past. He was planning to kill us, but fortunately he had told us his name at one point. We finally tracked him down to a large restaurant and we knew he was somewhere inside. But, he was a master of disguise so it was impossible to tell who he was.

So my character cast Infallible Messenger and send him a message - when it would get to him it would start yelling really loud, "I'm right here! I'm the Solar! Look at me! Come and kill me!"

The ST shot me a dirty look, read the spell and sighed. "Wow. That's pretty freaking cheap."

So the little cherub flew over to the Day Caste and totally blew his cover.

AnubisXy


I think the cherub always whispers its message into the recipient's ear. Otherwise, though, valid use of the spell.

[#][F] Holden - 9/6/2013
AnubisXy wrote:
Isator Levi wrote:
I wonder if there are still going to be only Five Courts, or if it's simply going to reassess the standards by which they're organised and distinguished from one another beyond being vaguely built around each of the Virtues and Willpower (which probably would have been confusing considering that the raksha also had five broad philosophies that were built around the same, if only anybody had managed to remember any of them besides the Church of Balor).


It's very possible that we'll see some changes to Raksha social structure. Virtues are going away as a thing in 3rd edition, so having Raksha courts organized around virtues might not make much sense.

We might still have 5 major Raksha courts (and numerous lesser courts), but having the "Temperance" court of the "Compassion" court probably won't be the way Raksha organize themselves anymore.


AnubisXy


Also the old Raksha Courts were some of the dumbest, least-interesting things in the entire setting.

[#][F] Holden - 9/6/2013
Imrix wrote:
Holden wrote:
What does Autochthonia have that is straight-up more technologically advanced than Creation? Almost nothing. Their industrial base is almost entirely rooted in Autochthon's biology or is Essence-dependent,
... So? That's like saying the First Age wasn't more technologically advanced than Creation today because its technological base was so rooted in Solar dependancy. Autochthonians still have stuff like giant forcefields to protect outlying settylements. A lot of settlements in Creation would quite literally kill for that kind of thing.


If you're defining "technology" as "stuff that can be done without active Essence manipulation" then yeah, the First Age wasn't all that much more advanced than the best of what current Creation can do (the technological mean across Creation has dropped considerably). Its medicine was better, its glassmaking was better, but in large part Creation's development of purely mundane advances has been repeatedly stunted by its greatest geniuses getting up to point X, then jumping off into mystical fields of development. For a good example, see the weird state of naval technology, which is in some ways very sophisticated, but in others very primitive, because when the wealthiest and smartest folks in the setting get involved, they jump straight to things like "rather than distributing strain across multiple small masts, let's just make our one big mast out of invincible construction materials."

Giant force-fields are magical, not technological, and you're never going to see anything like that unless a) it's a Municipal Charm or b) for some reason Autochthon's body produced an Essence-shielded area, and some people came along, found a way inside, and built a town behind the shield. The things Autochthonia has that Creation would openly envy are three guaranteed square meals a day for everyone and free Essence lighting. Elevators, also pretty nifty.

[#][F] Holden - 9/6/2013
Crumplepunch wrote:
Mountain Folk are explicitly said to have mundane steam power and advanced clockwork devices (Scroll of Fallen Races, p23), distinct from their Essence technology and thaumaturgy. I assume Autochthonia is at least as advanced, given that they have the same mundane equipment.

The argument could be made that the relevant technology is part of Autchthon's subsystems and/or the Alchemical cities and is therefore Essence based, but that seems like splitting hairs in the definition of what is "mundane" for an Autochthonian.


My litmus is "continues being useful to you once you leave Autochthonia." Like, they have lots of steam-powered whatsits, sure, but they get that steam from tapping into Autochthon's systems-- drop them into the middle of the Scavenger Lands and they're not going to be able to build an Abney Park-level fictionalized steam engine.

Looking at the set of skills and technologies they can carry out with them or build from scratch outside the Realm of Brass and Shadow, then subtracting Essence-powered devices, you're left with a bunch of dudes wearing leather armor and carrying shortswords and crossbows. A lot of their advances compared to the norm in Creation are in very basic things (their metallurgy is very good, as is their glass-making). Their architecture and structural engineering are top-notch, but specialized to their environment; and Creation is also extremely advanced in those areas due to all the power to be reaped from geomantic architecture.

[#][F] Holden - 9/6/2013
Isator Levi wrote:
Sandact6 wrote:


A form of light communication is completely different from a wireless telegraph which does things instantly.


The heliograph is still a form of telegraph, and was probably what Grabowski meant when he said "Creation has the telegraph".


He was probably referring to Infallible Messenger.

[#][F] Holden - 9/5/2013
LordYushkuv wrote:
ok good points, any good weapons for the original capture?

as you need to pacify them without seriously injuring them.


Nets?

[#][F] Holden - 9/5/2013
Large, enclosed building with a roof? Not super challenging.

[#][F] Stephen Lea Sheppard - 9/5/2013
This should make Secret happy.

[#][F] Holden - 9/5/2013
What does Autochthonia have that is straight-up more technologically advanced than Creation? Almost nothing. Their industrial base is almost entirely rooted in Autochthon's biology or is Essence-dependent, and a lot of their "advanced technology" like synthetic leather doesn't actually perform significantly better than the natural equivalent in Creation.

[#][F] RichT - 9/4/2013
Now both PDF and PoD versions are available and incorporate the feedback from the community that we received on the preliminary PDF version!

http://rpg.drivethrustuf...uct/114261?src=WWForums

Most mortals turn away from the darkness that preys upon them, going about their lives in despair of the Damned and the evils they visit upon the world. But a precious few wage a personal war to shine light on those shadows and diminish them, like solitary candles shining in the night. The path of the hunter is lonely and fraught with danger, at once beset by the monsters they hunt and looked upon with suspicion by their fellow mortals they thanklessly seek to protect.

Hunters Hunted 2 revisits one of the seminal titles of the Vampire: The Masquerade, in which the players take on the roles of those who seek to bring an end to the depredations of the undead. Included are details on those who choose to take up the good fight, expanding the options available to players and offering a host of new storytelling opportunities. No lone hunter or vigilant troupe should face the night without learning the ways of the hunter contained within this book.

Hunters Hunted 2 includes:

• Systems by which to play a vampire hunter — one who hunts the Kindred in the World of Darkness.

• Practical advice and teamwork-tactics game systems to bring to bear against the Damned.

• Updated systems for supernatural Numina powers that can grant hunters an edge against the undead.

• Updated information on The Inquisition, Project Twilight, The Arcanum, criminal organizations, and additional gear included as a result of the Deluxe HH2 Kickstarter Stretch Goals.

[#][F] Stephen Lea Sheppard - 9/4/2013
Guns make it easier for peasants to fight other peasants—it takes less training to fight effectively with a gun than with a crossbow, just as it takes less training to fight with a crossbow than it does to fight with a bow. This would change things inasmuch as standing armies become cheaper to field and everyone needs to adopt guns to keep up with their neighbors who have guns.

You wouldn't end up with the gun's arrival signaling the death of the epic hero, though, because even a heroic mortal can apply a parry to an enemy's bullets. You end up with this weird hybrid genre where on the lower end you've got mooks with guns dominating the unarmed, but those mooks fall before Homeric champions armed with whatever weapon looks neat. Final Fantasy VII might be a good place to look for inspiration—baseline Shinra soldiers have assault rifles but everyone in the party and all the named antagonists wield signature weapons instead, and bringing a sword to a gunfight works fine.

Magic's rare. Infallible Messenger is great and all, but you want that AND heliographs so your merchants know what price to sell prawns at so you can extract the most tax from 'em.

[#][F] RichT - 9/4/2013
Things we could do to tighten up the process aside, I spent several Monday Meeting blog posts talking about the very issue of the PDF/PDF+PoD issue, and announced that we have worked out a way with DTRPG to offer a discount combo price to anyone who bought the PDF before the PoD is available. The blogs aren't all that long, and not all of them are just my ramblings with Eddy about Sherlock Holmes and actually contain useful info like this, so you might want to check them out. Make sure to read the comments too as we have many good discussions there. http://whitewolfblogs.co...category/monday-meeting/

[#][F] RichT - 9/3/2013
Obviously, the Open Dev Process is an evolving system, and we're always looking for ways to improve on how it functions. Standardizing where the info exists and how it is gathered for return back to the devs is something we are working on. Additionally, we have in fact used the "thousand eyes are better than ten" idea brought up in the backer PDF review period to now have all of our PDFs release earlier than the PoDs so that we can get feedback from the community. That being said, as I've mentioned before, I'm not interested in forcing any developer to hold to any parts of the Open Dev Process that they find hard to deal with, nor to mandate changes be made according to fan input. That would drive out some of our most innovative creators.