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[#][F] Chai Tea - 1/29/2013
Some Pacific Islander groups make a drink out of kava, which acts as a mild sedative--it's used to relax, without getting drunk. It'd be right at home in Creation.

[#][F] John Mørke - 1/29/2013
fata_ku wrote:
Mostlyjoe wrote:
Damn. It just hit me.

The majority of "Fire and Forget" style charms are gone, or changed so they require you to roleplay an extended encounter with the NPC you are influencing.

That's how you fixed Social Combat. No more 1E style lack of interaction needed, and no more 2E willpower fights. You've set up required actions for Charms to go into effect, and then required actions to keep them going.

That's what I'm hoping for, so gddamn much. It's something I feel 2e Lunars did well - the charms didn't do things, they allowed you to do things. I think I might fall in love with Solars again :D


Just so!

[#][F] John Mørke - 1/29/2013
This thread explodes with awesome.

What is the difference between ale and beer, if any?

[#][F] Holden - 1/29/2013
MissMaddy wrote:
Omicron wrote:
MissMaddy wrote:
In truth, obviously beneficial policies are fairly rare. Even in our own modern state, we argue ceaselessly about various policies that have multiple levels of complicated nuance.

Alice:"So I can ask them to do that, and after a few weeks they'll realize it's beneficial and I can leave them, right?"
Bob:"Beneficial? Seriously? Okay listen-"
Steve:"No Bob shut the fuck up we're not having a debate on welfare state at my gaming table."
Bob:"What? But-"
Steve:"Nope, not euthanasia either."
Bob:"But she can't-"
Steve:"Swords control is also out limits."
Bob:"...you're taking all the fun out of this, you know."
Steve:"For once I would like to have a goddamn rpg session and not a political debate."


Entirely, deadpan serious - yes, this is the dillema I am describing. :P

Maybe it'd work well to have it based purely upon perception. IE; even a actively detrimental policy could be thought by a plurality of the group to be positive, or vice versa.

This neatly sidesteps the issue of objective appraisal by placing the merit of the policy in the eye of the beholder.

It also raises some intriguing possibilities when paired with other charms, or when considered in the context of propaganda.

A viable play strategy might literally be to tell a lie big enough, long enough, so that eventually everybody believes it.

The 'subsidies' thing of the 2e High First Age Usurpation might be taken as an example of this...


As time goes on, you'll notice that 3e trends toward two ideas: "Words mean what they say they mean" and "we believe your Storyteller not only has a brain, but also knows how to use it."

[#][F] Holden - 1/29/2013
Stephenls wrote:
Hm.

Any system that requires an organization to have a codified leader is going to fly in the face of social models where actions arise spontaneously out of larger social trends[1], or where leadership arises out of difficult-to-quantify interactions between a small-to-medium-sized group.


Such as the Guild's Directorate, or the Council of Entities. Yes.

[#][F] John Mørke - 1/29/2013
About benefits:

If you made it taboo to drink the water that was giving people cholera, it would take awhile for them to realize and accept that your ban is directly related to the decrease in cholera-related deaths and therefore beneficial. The benefits are not immediately obvious, because Creation doesn't have microscopes or even germ theory. But your Exalt may very well know that contaminated water is the culprit behind cholera, a thousand years before it would ever be discovered by science. He doesn't even need medicine to know it; he might compare records of every case of cholera and do the math, much as a scientist in Earth history once did, well before cholera was found to actually exist in water...before it was even suspected!

The point is, what's beneficial is sometimes context sensitive, and may only be obvious in time. Though I would expect a creative Solar to be able to expedite the process.

For example, this:

Mostlyjoe wrote:
Evil way to use charm # 1:

The circle's Night Caste shows up ahead of time and starts killing people doing action X. Repeat for a few days.

The Eclipse shows up, befriends the leader and zammos him with this charm. "Stop doing X and the Killings should stop. Perhaps do Y?"

King orders action X to stop, and accepts Y as an alternative.

The few that resist the orders DIE if they do X, everyone else doing Y lives.

Eclipse hands around and keeps preaching peace and happiness with Y.

Everyone agrees that Y is better...you die less.

So you can use negative reinforcement with this charm, but it's 2 man con.

[#][F] John Mørke - 1/29/2013
Hey guys.

In the "spirit" of keeping Exalted fresh and lively, I am looking to expand my knowledge about beverages in the ancient world. Do you know of any books or other resources that might interest me?

Also, if you know of any exotic drinks, or ancient drinks that you think particularly fit the feel of Exalted, fire away. Specifically, I am wondering what the most common drinks would be in places like Nighthammer or the docks of a western port city.

[#][F] Stephen Lea Sheppard - 1/29/2013
Oh, man, you quit just before the ministrife.

[#][F] Stephen Lea Sheppard - 1/29/2013
tluthal wrote:
Stephenls wrote:
tluthal wrote:
John Mørke wrote:
Furthermore, other beneficial behaviors are not immediately obvious; a Lawgiver who wants a group to realize the wondrous benefits of regular bathing should remain in the area long enough for these benefits to materialize.


I read this, and all I could think was "Hi Loq!" XD Which lead to the folllowing in the exalted skype chat I run: [Spoilered for foul language. I normally wouldn't but almost every line is... yeah XD Twilights that'd make sailors blanch are fun.]

"YOU IDIOTIC ASSHOLES, HAVE SOME SOAP AND WATER. NOW GO BATHE. I'M NOT LEAVING UNTIL YOU'RE CLEAN."
"NOW SEE HOW MUCH HEALTHIER YOU MORONS ARE?"
"AND HOW MUCH LESS DISGUSTINGLY PUNGENT?!"
"SWEET SOL THIS IS BASIC SHIT YOU CHUCKLEFUCKS."
"AND STOP HAVING SEX WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE SICK FOR LUNA'S SAKE! HOW DO YOU THINK YOU KEEP GETTING THE FOREIGN LESION?!"
"AND HERE. HERE IS SOME SHEEPSGUTS I TURNED INTO A MIRACLE MATERIAL. PUT IT ON YOUR DICK."
"YES I KNOW IT DULLS SENSATION. IT MAKES YOU LAST LONGER AND MAKES YOUR WIFE HAPPY YOU INSENSITIVE IGNORAMUS."
"PLUS IT'S A PROTOTYPE."
And then Loq invented the perfect condom. It requires a thaumaturgical ritual, which leads to...
"OH AND SEND ALL YOUR KIDS TO ME FOR THREE HOURS A DAY. THOSE FUCKERS'LL BE SMARTER, STRONGER, AND GENERALLY BETTER THAN ANY GENERATION IN LIVING MEMORY."


Karkat?


Gilgamesh Wulfenbach.


That's not Gil. That's Karkat Vantas. I would recognize that tone anywhere.

You need to read Homestuck now, I'm afraid. Just set aside some time; it's got a slow start.

[#][F] Stephen Lea Sheppard - 1/29/2013
Hm.

Any system that requires an organization to have a codified leader is going to fly in the face of social models where actions arise spontaneously out of larger social trends[1], or where leadership arises out of difficult-to-quantify interactions between a small-to-medium-sized group.

But all this stuff is absurdly difficult to model usefully. You have to accept some level of abstraction.

[1] I'm still reading Seeing Like A State, and it has a pretty convincing argument that the bolsheviks actually had sweet fuck-all to do with inciting or organizing the October Revolution, and were mostly a well-organized group of folks who had convinced themselves that because they had foreseen the revolution, and had spent a lot of time talking and writing publicly about how it was coming, they must be the ones who were causing it, and who then recognized the power vacuum left in its wake and managed to convince enough people after-the-fact that they'd been in charge that they managed to assume control over what was left of the social infrastructure.

[#][F] Stephen Lea Sheppard - 1/29/2013
tluthal wrote:
John Mørke wrote:
Furthermore, other beneficial behaviors are not immediately obvious; a Lawgiver who wants a group to realize the wondrous benefits of regular bathing should remain in the area long enough for these benefits to materialize.


I read this, and all I could think was "Hi Loq!" XD Which lead to the folllowing in the exalted skype chat I run: [Spoilered for foul language. I normally wouldn't but almost every line is... yeah XD Twilights that'd make sailors blanch are fun.]

"YOU IDIOTIC ASSHOLES, HAVE SOME SOAP AND WATER. NOW GO BATHE. I'M NOT LEAVING UNTIL YOU'RE CLEAN."
"NOW SEE HOW MUCH HEALTHIER YOU MORONS ARE?"
"AND HOW MUCH LESS DISGUSTINGLY PUNGENT?!"
"SWEET SOL THIS IS BASIC SHIT YOU CHUCKLEFUCKS."
"AND STOP HAVING SEX WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE SICK FOR LUNA'S SAKE! HOW DO YOU THINK YOU KEEP GETTING THE FOREIGN LESION?!"
"AND HERE. HERE IS SOME SHEEPSGUTS I TURNED INTO A MIRACLE MATERIAL. PUT IT ON YOUR DICK."
"YES I KNOW IT DULLS SENSATION. IT MAKES YOU LAST LONGER AND MAKES YOUR WIFE HAPPY YOU INSENSITIVE IGNORAMUS."
"PLUS IT'S A PROTOTYPE."
And then Loq invented the perfect condom. It requires a thaumaturgical ritual, which leads to...
"OH AND SEND ALL YOUR KIDS TO ME FOR THREE HOURS A DAY. THOSE FUCKERS'LL BE SMARTER, STRONGER, AND GENERALLY BETTER THAN ANY GENERATION IN LIVING MEMORY."


Karkat?

[#][F] John Mørke - 1/29/2013
Isator Levi wrote:
Omicron wrote:
I am going to afford a minor disappointment: the requirement for the Intimacy to be positive is understandable, lest feeling any emotion whatsoever towards an Exalt leave you wide open to all their powers and you end up with Intimacy-as-weaknesses; but I kinda wish I could just show up at the wedding of the king (who hates me) while wearing a red scarf and steal a kiss from his daughter, thus leading him ban in anger anyone in his kingdom from wearing a red scarf. All to fulfill my long-term (not so) nefarious purposes!


I'd say it would be possible to make a custom Charm to do this.


Yes. Or enlist a Sidereal.

[#][F] John Mørke - 1/29/2013
Eldagusto wrote:
Speaking of which are you'all still going to use the phrase Social Combat?


Nawp! It is the Social Influence system now.

[#][F] John Mørke - 1/29/2013
Andonno wrote:
John Mørke wrote:
On Taboo-Inflicting Diatribe

Hmm, does this mean other social charms will have a "potential long-term effects" blurb? Or non-social charms?


I will be working these in where I can. :D

[#][F] John Mørke - 1/29/2013
Vidiian wrote:
I like this. A lot. One of the big things I realized I want to see from 3E is for the whole system to be given love and attention, not just the combat-ey parts of it, as 2E seemed to drift into doing at times. This looks like a definite step in that direction and a very good choice for a first Charm spoiler. I can see the limitations and nuances being really interesting to my social-powerhouse players when it comes to interacting with people and populations.

The capitalized words look a little jargon-ey out of context, but then again so do Keywords for Charms, and those were one of the best ideas in 2E (even if the Keyword defenses weren't always the best implemented).


It's so fun to play an Eclipse now. I can't wait til we hit the playtest phase and I get to see people flip. Writing these Charms has been a blast. After I finished Taboo-Inflicting Diatribe, I couldn't wait to show you guys.