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[#][F] Eric Minton - 2/25/2013
Olollort wrote:
Eric Minton wrote:
Creation has five elements: air, earth, fire, water and wood. You will not find one atom of carbon, potassium or sulfur anywhere.

The inner workings of Creation exist to facilitate a specific genre, namely pulp fantasy. Anything in our scientific understanding of the real world and its concomitant technologies -- from gunpowder to computers to nuclear bombs -- which interferes with facilitating that genre has no place in Creation.
The sections which refer to bananas and SULFUR by name disagree.
Bananas and sulfur both exist in Creation. Neither of them are elements, nor can either of them be used to make gunpowder.

Creation has no gunpowder because guns don't fit the developers' aims for pulp fantasy Creation, and the needs of the setting outweigh any potential benefits of universally incorporating all real-world scientific observations and technologies into our pulp fantasy game. It's not because we dislike bananas or sulfur, both of which continue to exist in Creation.

[#][F] John Mørke - 2/25/2013
Kukla wrote:
Tiresias wrote:
Every artifact will have its own history, so duplicating any artifact will be flat-out impossible.
I don't give a shit about my weapon's history, I just care how many lasers I can shoot out of it


Alas, your Exalt will be an Evocation virgin for the entire edition. emotion-6.gif

[#][F] Holden - 2/25/2013
The Chills and One Last Joke wrote:
Isator Levi wrote:
The Chills and One Last Joke wrote:
So what the hell why not?


Because Exalted doesn't have guns.
You misspelled consistency.


And that's why we're pretty much ignoring 2nd edition as we build 3rd. See, there was once an edition where it did.

[#][F] Eric Minton - 2/25/2013
Creation has five elements: air, earth, fire, water and wood. You will not find one atom of carbon, potassium or sulfur anywhere.

The inner workings of Creation exist to facilitate a specific genre, namely pulp fantasy. Anything in our scientific understanding of the real world and its concomitant technologies -- from gunpowder to computers to nuclear bombs -- which interferes with facilitating that genre has no place in Creation.

[#][F] John Mørke - 2/25/2013
The Chills and One Last Joke wrote:
Isator Levi wrote:
The Chills and One Last Joke wrote:
I expect certain things to ignite if set on fire, yes.


Like paper!

Can you power a gun using paper?
In the Real world..probably not.

But apparently chemistry works differently in Exalted. So what the hell why not?


If by apparently you mean a self evident law that has been blatantly obvious since day one? Since you know, if our cities and nations were all destroyed tomorrow, the survivors wouldn't go back to triremes and forget about the guns they just had.

[#][F] John Mørke - 2/25/2013
SachKreiosLucy4 wrote:
The Chills and One Last Joke wrote:
Holden wrote:
Tiresias wrote:
SachKreiosLucy4 wrote:

While not opposed, isn't this a tiny bit artificial feeling (no pun intended)?

If we have gear-emblems, one would imagine that one day an engineer would use gears in a machine.

If we have explosive materials, one would imagine that one day an engineer would try using them in a grenade or cannon.

If we have savants actually building Alchemicals, one would imagine lesser mortals emulating the same kind of devices via more basic gadgetry.


Autochthonia is weird. Between shortages and the constraints of tunnel warfare, building a cannon is probably a massive waste.


Also unworkable because Exalted doesn't have gunpowder.
That only makes sense if it's a setting where absolutely nobody has mixed together Charcoal, Potassium Nitrate and Sulfur together to see what happens when it gets set on fire. Or set it on fire accidentally. Anima Flux is a bitch.

Given they were pulling stuff like that in Imperial China (While seeking out Eternal life no less), which the Realm is at least partially based on...I dunno, seems unlikely at best. Utterly nonsensical at worst.

Yeah, this.

(1) Essentially, in all creation, either:
--- (1a) you're saying it hasn't happened yet (but could, and certain gods might help)
--- (1b) you're saying it's impossible (that chemistry arbitrarily doesn't work this way - if so, what else fails?)

(2) Firedust produces an issue, since there are both firearms and grenades made of the stuff.
--- (2a) unless it works distinctly different from gunpowder? but one still imagines using it for various things
--- (2b) unless you plan to eliminate it altogether

(3) Even without explosives, there's an issue of flamable things also used as weapons
--- (3a) Molotov cocktails, oil, liqour in general, etc. I'd sure as hell design a spray weapon with which to set a path for burning.
--- (3b) Flour bombs also work. It's basically a dust explosion of quickly igniting stuff

Etc.

Mind you, I have no interest in high-tech settings. I've never had a magi-tech fetish. But one never knows where the (arbitrary seeming) line is, given all the ways we can work around it. We also have gods of mechanical flight (and with mechanical anything, one begins adjusting for violence).

Stephenls wrote:
No, Exalted really doesn't have gunpowder. It has firedust, which seems similar in some ways, but nobody's been able to use firedust to make a projectile-throwing weapon smaller than a cannon emplacement; for whatever reason the reaction doesn't scale down in such a way that it can be used to fling modern-earth-bullet-sized projectiles.

We're talking about a world where weather happens because bears herd clouds; you think chemistry works the same?
Which is perfectly fine, except, then one is left wondering what else fails to translate.

Do people smelt iron using butter, because the iron-gods enjoy the taste?

Do people acquire the color purple by mixing yellow and blue?

If chemistry doesn't work the same, does this mean that mixing alcohol and juice will give off light? Cause warring liquid elementals to fight each other? Explode? Turn into soup?

If I mixed flour and eggs, do I get rocks?

Does burning paper result in silver dust?

Does metal never rust?

Bill Nye - Simple Chemical Reactions (lol)

It's the kind of absurdity that belongs alongside the "no resurrection" and "no time travel" rules - things that people will find ways around regardless, but which exist as... narrative guidelines, rather than scientific principles?


Is salting the earth good for crops because of electrolytes?


A tangential set of physical laws does not invite mockery or scorn. Your snarking isn't clever, it's just sad.

[#][F] Stephen Lea Sheppard - 2/25/2013
The Chills and One Last Joke wrote:
Isator Levi wrote:
The Chills and One Last Joke wrote:
So what the hell why not?


Because Exalted doesn't have guns.
You misspelled consistency.


Pthhhhhhbbbbbt.

[#][F] John Mørke - 2/25/2013
Venatius wrote:
kitsune9tails wrote:
how the Usurpation could happen in a setting where Essence 7+ Solars can homebrew Charms that let essentially let them UMI all of Creation, let alone plunge entire cities into Malfeas with a literal song and dance.


Why was the usurpation necessary in a setting where they couldn't?


Because you can justify the Usurpation without any of it, and tell a much more profound story. Since you know, even in the throes of the Great Curse the Solars might have been the greatest heroes there ever was, and it isn't a bunch of lip service based on universal mind control.



[#][F] Stephen Lea Sheppard - 2/25/2013
No, Exalted really doesn't have gunpowder. It has firedust, which seems similar in some ways, but nobody's been able to use firedust to make a projectile-throwing weapon smaller than a cannon emplacement; for whatever reason the reaction doesn't scale down in such a way that it can be used to fling modern-earth-bullet-sized projectiles.

We're talking about a world where weather happens because bears herd clouds; you think chemistry works the same?

[#][F] Holden - 2/25/2013
Tiresias wrote:
SachKreiosLucy4 wrote:

While not opposed, isn't this a tiny bit artificial feeling (no pun intended)?

If we have gear-emblems, one would imagine that one day an engineer would use gears in a machine.

If we have explosive materials, one would imagine that one day an engineer would try using them in a grenade or cannon.

If we have savants actually building Alchemicals, one would imagine lesser mortals emulating the same kind of devices via more basic gadgetry.


Autochthonia is weird. Between shortages and the constraints of tunnel warfare, building a cannon is probably a massive waste.


Also unworkable because Exalted doesn't have gunpowder.

[#][F] Holden - 2/25/2013
The playtests indicate that it's not change you need to fear in EX3, anyway.

It's tyrant lizards. Those fuckers bite HARD.

[#][F] Holden - 2/25/2013
Zironic wrote:
Mostlyjoe wrote:
Holden wrote:
Probably not. Most likely expectation is to see "magitech" disappear from the game's vocabulary and no particular acknowledgment of mechanical-y artifacts as being categorically separate from other artifacts--pretty much like 1e, in other words.


How does that impact Alchemicals when they show up?


I imagine they'll be using artifacts that look more mechanical, but are still just normal artifacts. I think it's worth noting that the main weapons of the Alchemicals are crossbows and chakrams, not essence cannons and the like.


The armies of Autochthonia have always fought with short swords, crossbows, and reinforced buff jackets as their main kit. They just have gear-emblem pauldrons and shit. Industrial machinery is a visual motif for Autochthonia; it's not actually a mechanized entity when the rubber hits the road. Never has been.

[#][F] Holden - 2/25/2013
Mostlyjoe wrote:
Holden wrote:
Probably not. Most likely expectation is to see "magitech" disappear from the game's vocabulary and no particular acknowledgment of mechanical-y artifacts as being categorically separate from other artifacts--pretty much like 1e, in other words.


How does that impact Alchemicals when they show up?


Not at all. Why should it?

[#][F] Holden - 2/25/2013
Segev wrote:
Holden wrote:
I'd say WotLA did more damage in a broad sense, seeing as it was the very first supplement. It launched an edition where 98% of your options when you bought the Artifact background were sci-fi gizmos, failed to stress rarity beyond a sentence in the introduction, presented them like a shopping list, then gave them no drawbacks because of the nonexistent repair/maintenance rules. That skewed the entire shape of the edition going forward.

Would it be fair to hope for a WotLA-like book for 3e, sometime after enough others have been written to more firmly settle the default, and with better rules for representing the...difficulties...and unique capabilities of such things?


Probably not. Most likely expectation is to see "magitech" disappear from the game's vocabulary and no particular acknowledgment of mechanical-y artifacts as being categorically separate from other artifacts--pretty much like 1e, in other words.